MMA fans discuss UFC 140, MMA and Brock Lesnar legacy

December 31, 2011 No Comments

Alistair Overeem (L) is shown pinning Brock Lesnar (R), the former UFC Champion against the cage in Friday's UFC 141 Main Event. Photo: Jon Kopaloff/Getty Images

Up for discussion:

“I’m not a big Brock Lesnar fan but he did fight the top level guys…not a bunch of tomato cans. Though short-lived, his MMA career was nothing less than thrilling.


 

With his heartbreaking submission loss to Frank Mir, his complete destruction of Heath Herring, battle with the legendary Randy Couture, avenging his loss to Mir, successful defense of his title against Shane Carwin, his devastating title loss to Cain Velasquez and subsequent loss to Alistair Overeem, Lesnar was electrifying to watch.

What he’s done for the UFC and MMA in general is equal to that of Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture. He has brought the UFC closer to mainstream than ever. His pay-per-view numbers are unmatched and will probably remain so for a very long time. He is considered by some to be overrated, by others he is thought of as one of the greatest heavyweight champions the UFC has ever known. Regardless of one’s personal opinion, he will always remain the “baddest man on the planet.”

Alexis “Powerhouse” Pappas

San Diego, CA. 

Counterpoint:

“When Brock Lesnar beat Randy Couture he was somehow considered the best heavyweight in the U.F.C. and the heavyweight champion. When Lyoto “The Dragon” Machida beat Couture, people freaked out because it earned him a shot at the light heavyweight title. Lesnar has to outweigh Machida by 60 pounds. How was Machida’s win any less impressive? Couture was no better nor worse when he fought Machida. Lesnar was nothing special and his retiring with an unimpressive record demonstrates this fact. In truth, he was what Kimbo Slice was intended to be.”

Point to be made:

“When Brock Lesnar retired on Friday night, people had “Back to WWE” trending on Twitter. What should have been trending was “Thank you, Brock Lesnar.” People might make fun of him now, but let’s put Lesnar’s career in perspective for a second. He was UFC heavyweight champion in his third UFC fight and fourth career fight, overall. Lesnar could forever be one of MMA’s “What ifs.” What if he started his MMA career at an earlier age? What if he didn’t develop diverticulitis? If there was one thing Lesnar brought to MMA, it was exposure. He averaged a 1-million pay-per-view buy rate every time he fought. His fights were, most of the time, prominently featured on ESPN. He was also part of UFC 100 which had the most pay-per-view buys in UFC history, which brought in a new slew of MMA fans. For that, we thank you Brock.

Johnedel Carlos

San Diego, CA

Up for discussion:

“Please don’t throw Brock Lesnar into the “great” category.

All he ever had was his size and wrestling, neither of which meant anything when fighting the best in the world. It’s plain to see he was just in it for the money. Which you can’t blame him for. But let us not get carried away with how “great” he was.”

Counterpoint:

“It’s just a bunch of nonsense when people say he was only in it for the money. He loved to compete. In my opinion the Shane Carwin fight took more than you think out of him. He hasn’t looked the same; seems kinda timid in there after that fight. Happens a lot in boxing. You see a great up and comer, then he steps in there too early against a tough opponent and he’s never the same. It was just too much, too soon.”

“Lesnar won more because of skill than size, but to say size doesn’t matter is ridiculous. Do you honestly believe he could hold Couture and Mir down if he didn’t weigh 280 pounds and wasn’t as strong as an ox?

Lesnar used the perfect wrestling technique to neutralize Mir on the ground. It was so perfect that Mir could not even attempt to use his guard and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But along comes Overeem to prove the one dimensional fighter has become a thing of the past. To excel in MMA you need to have the total package. Size alone doesn’t matter as much as overall skills.

For those of you who say Overeem cheated by kicking Lesnar in the liver, I ask you what do you think about Jon Jones kicking Shogun Rua in the side of his knee over and over again? Which is worse? I think kicking someone in the side of their knee to try and ruin another fighters career is down right cheap and the lowest form of dirty street fighting I have ever seen. Now whats only right is someone give Jones some of his own medicine and see if those toothpicks he calls legs will like getting the side of his knee smashed.

Overeem should have clearly just thrown his years of kickboxing experience out the window and made this a wrestling match. Hell, I think he should have tried to pull guard and let Brock lunch box him for awhile. Show some balls, Alistair! It’s just dumb to try and exploit a weakness. And this isn’t the first time he’s pulled this crap. Remember when he fought Werdum. Scared to jump in BJJ specialist’s guard. What a coward!”

Point to be made:

“I suspect that was sarcasm, but you know you did it so well.

Actually that was the right idea when you think about it. Body shots at least from most fighters are usually used to mixup their standup or to get the other fighter to protect the body and leave their head exposed, so Brock had the right idea. It’s just that unlike most fighters Overeem has the power to finish fights with his body shots.

You have no idea what a liver kick feels like. Most people would be tapping on the ground; at least he tried to ride out the pain.

It’s not that it’s not true, but seems like a slap in the face toward Lesnar. I’m actually surprised I’m typing this due to the fact that I was never a Lesnar fan, not even close.”

Counterpoint:

“Slap in the face to call him good, but not great?

Slap in the face to say out loud something, that we already know…that he doesn’t like getting hit. That’s not even underestimating. That’s just stating the facts.”

Point to be made:

“Like many, I got interested in the UFC through Brock Lesnar after having been a WWE fan first. Lesnar not only brought ratings, PPV buys, and money to the UFC but he was such a polarizing figure that win or lose, he commanded such a presence at each event. With his sudden departure, things may be bleak for the UFC in 2012. Im not just talking about Lesnar’s retirement as I am about George St. Pierre’s injury. The news that both of these UFC warriors will be out should send shocks and chills down the backs of many UFC fighters, even more so when Anderson Silva seemingly beat Forrest Griffin with ease. Consider the financial burden the UFC must now overcome as only certain places will front the cash for a PPV event. The UFC will have its work cut out for them in 2012. Being the last two bankable stars, Jon Jones and Rampage Jackson, they’re going to be asked to shoulder a lot. Guys like Frank Mir and Roy Nelson who live in there own little world where they think they can garner mass ratings by themselves are gonna suddenly get a reality check. In short Lesnar’s retirement and St. Pierre’s injury will not hurt the UFC in the short term but things might not look so good in the long run.

“Who will Cain Velasquez be fighting now? The loser of this Lesnar vs Overeem fight was supposed to fight him. Velasquez needs to knock off that ring rust and get the show going. He’s a real fighter who needs to show some better head movement.”

Counterpoint: 

“How many times have you read, “The UFC fills it’s watered-down cards with irrelevant fighters?” At UFC 141, Jimy Hettes got the MMA world’s attention by putting on a clinic against Nam Phan. MMA fans regularly disparage fighters who haven’t yet made their name in MMA. But in MMA, the jump from irrelevant to prospect to contender can happen quickly. Hendricks once lingered on the undercard, but after knocking out John Fitch, No. 2 welterweight in the world, he could be in a title fight by the end of the year. Alexander Gustafsson, another young fighter who some would have considered “irrelevant,” proved on Saturday night that he’s a prospect to watch in 2012. Just because the future of MMA earns their stripes in empty arenas and on Facebook, fans shouldn’t be dismissive of their effort.

“Jose R.”

San Diego, CA

The MMA gyms of San Diego County are developing the talent everyday. Plus if Overeem does well off this win, he’ll give all of Europe someone to follow. You got to believe there’s a ton of talent in Russia, China, Korea, Thailand and Europe.”

“If it wasn’t for Brock’s medical problems over the last two years, how many more fights would he have fought anyway? He did well, but being classified as great has to be a stretch. Randy Couture, the Nogueira brothers, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Sean Penn, George St. Pierres and so on have laid the groundwork to make this sport what it is today.

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